Charting a Unique Path to Independence with Mark Willis

 00:00
Charlie Van Derven
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of RAA Collective. I'm your host, Charlie Van Derven. I am joined today by my new friend Mark Willis. Mark is with Lake Growth Financial Services in Chicago land and I think serving a little some areas outside of there, too. Mark's got a pretty unique story, and so I think that it'll benefit a lot of our listeners who are maybe in that kind of captive area looking at making a transition. Mark didn't do it the traditional way. He didn't walk out of college with that finance degree and go join the big firm and cut his teeth in this industry. Man, what a brave guy. He jumps right into being an RIA, or I suppose an IAR operating an RIA. Mark, welcome to RAA Collective, and thank you so much for taking some time out of your day to be with me. 

 00:45
Mark Willis
Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me on, charlie yeah, of course. 

 00:48
Charlie Van Derven
Man I was attracted mark, we met on LinkedIn first initially a couple of months ago, probably. I was attracted to your profile because you didn't take the traditional route, which I guess there's so many paths in this industry, Mark, what's traditional anymore? Many of the advisors, many of the Ras I meet today, they graduated with their finance degree. They probably went to a job fair. Maybe they hooked up with one of the big insurance companies or one of the big financial warehouses, spent five or ten years there, realized it wasn't the environment for them, and then started to make their path to independence. But you didn't do it that way. Man you bucked that whole system. Tell me about that. Why that path to an RIA right away? What was attractive about that? I'll shut up Mark, because I'm not very good at that and let you talk. 

 01:38
Mark Willis
Man well, it was out of ignorance and not knowing the path in the first place. Sometimes if you don't know the box, you can't think outside of it. If you can imagine, I graduated with a theology degree and a Master's of Divinity. I never intended to be like a preacher, pastor, priest, whatever. It wasn't in my deck of cards to do that necessarily. I just really wanted to spend time getting a foundation in my faith and learning how people grow better into a better future as a community. And that was kind of my goal. I moved to Chicago and worked for a nonprofit, a church here in the area here as a volunteer. Got some part time help for a few years while were just getting started here in Chicagoland. I knew I needed a full time job that would ultimately replace any money that we had raised to come up here. 

 02:32
Mark Willis
I started working for a CPA at the time, just helping out with tax prep and that thing. I jokingly say my favorite book of the Bible is The Book of Numbers, because I really loved getting into the math of things. Interestingly, it was right in the midst of the 2008 fallout where there were people who were watching their 401 KS become 201 KS. I never knew that there was a captive model in the first place. All I knew is I wanted nothing to do with the calls and conversations I was hearing my CPA make. She was an incredible expert in her field. She nationally recognized CPA, but she was making those calls that just shook my bones, man. It was like, hey, Mr. Client, I know you're 63 years old. I know you're about to retire, but I just lost you half your life savings and not so many words. 

 03:26
Mark Willis
I felt like I just had to get out of the business. I didn't want anything to do with that. It was about that time that I knew also that I had some major debts to pay off with my student loans. I mean, those degrees, while they were meaningful for me, they weren't exactly paying the bills in a market where people weren't hiring. In fact, my first job after getting out of college was scraping the muck out from under an elevator at a property management building that I just working as an employee, just trying to get the bills paid right. Talk about going from ego driven degrees to the bottom of the barrel, literally. 

 04:03
Charlie Van Derven
Wow. 

 04:06
Mark Willis
Big perspective. Get you humble real quick. Yeah, that was my path, and I just realized that, hey, if I can find a financial strategy to get me out of this muck, out of this mess, if I ever find strategies that help my family myself, personally, I want to shout it from the rooftops. Those were the strategies that helped me break free from my debts, helped get my family on a financially set path, and changed my family tree. I started the firm Lake Growth Financial Services, and it was a reframing of my entire financial life. I feel like money and where it's placed has a big impact on your mindset and your heart. If your money isn't in meme, stocks and cryptocurrency, you're going to think different than if it's in a shoebox under your bed. Not that I'm recommending either of those things, but it matters where your money lives because it acts different and the characteristics are different. 

 05:04
Mark Willis
I wanted to be a counterintuitive countercultural, you might say not so average financial planner. I ended up going through the CFP designation and getting that set up and setting up an independent firm, lake Growth Financial, out of Chicago, and we work with all clients in all 50 states. 

 05:22
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah. That is awesome, man. What a great perspective. Now, Compliance loves that you're not giving any financial advice right now, right? 

 05:31
Mark Willis
Thank you. 

 05:32
Charlie Van Derven
I should say the compliance hat you wear that's right. You're not giving financial advice, but can you tell us about and again, not advice, but strategically, you go from clean and muck out from under elevators to starting an RIA. What's the time span that you're talking about there? Is that four years of time? 

 05:51
Mark Willis
Well, I was working as an independent advisor and insurance agent at the same time as I was working in the property management firm. I should say it more clearly, like, I was actually working with the CPA and the property management firm and a restaurant and doing some side work with a church that were helping to get started. I mean, were getting as many streams as we could of income because were trying to get out from under the rock of all that debt we had created or I had created in the college degrees that we had gotten. It was out of a means of necessity that were working all these jobs. Finance was a personal passion of mine. I remember, though, as I was noticing, my income was drawing to a close, and I did not want to keep doing that. Property management snow shoveling in Chicago is not fun. 

 06:42
Mark Willis
Getting under those elevators was not fun. I started looking for the day job, the cubicle work, and I went to a bank I'll just call it a major multinational bank, and they have lots of branches, leave the name out. I remember trying to get that job as a teller, a bank teller, and connoting my passion. You can tell just from our conversation, I believe in this money thing and that it matters where your money lives and what you do with your money matters to your heart and to your outcomes and your sanity and more. I didn't get the job as a simple teller at a bank with a master's degree, and I didn't get a job. Again, it might have been the recession, but I didn't get the job. That would have been a different path for my life to get that work a day, punch the clock, w, two style employee job. 

 07:33
Mark Willis
And I didn't get the job. I'm so thankful I didn't, because it was right after that my wife gave me the courage to start the firm, and here we are today. 

 07:42
Charlie Van Derven
That is awesome, man. You speak so much about where you put your money and what your money does actually for your mindset, and we didn't rehearse this at all. I don't know where your answer is going to go with this, but there's a big trend with ESG, right? And values based investing. That something that Lake Growth Dabbles in or again, Mark, go ahead. 

 08:08
Mark Willis
Yeah, sure. Well, here's the thing. I believe that you can control where your money goes, and most of our clients are business owners, real estate investors, and even NFL Super Bowl champions. But most of the people. I'd say the majority of the people we work with just want more certainty, agency certainty, control over where their money is and what it's doing for them. Now, we've got clients all across the political spectrum, and so I have no interest in necessarily directing them into one particular asset class over another. I know there's a lot of distinction in the ESG world, and I know that it's come under scrutiny recently because typically those assets underperform, generally speaking, because we're looking for more than just a rate of return. That's what I love about that push, whether it's ESG or ABC or XYZ. What I love is that we're looking for more than just rate of return. 

 09:06
Mark Willis
What I want is for our clients to have even more control, like, down to the granular, should they choose. Like, why should we have prohibited transactions in a self directed IRA? Why can't I fix up my kitchen? If I'm going to use my money, it should be my money. Why do I need to have a bunch of prohibited transactions on what I can do with my IRA funds? I had a gentleman one time, he had an IRA, an Individual Retirement Account, and he tried to use his self directed IRA to buy a retirement home. Now, that's a no in the IRS world, but he said his world, his understanding was, hey, this is a retirement account. I should be able to buy my retirement home. Well, the IRS didn't like that, and they called it a prohibited transaction. It all became taxable, and he got a penalty in the current year. 

 09:52
Mark Willis
Ouch. So where is that written? Why is that a good idea, to lock our money up for decades and then we can't even use it? We have to be 60 years old before we feel like we can even be adults and use our own money. To answer your question, no, I don't have an ESG portfolio that I tell folks here, you need to put your money in here. I generally speaking as a CFP, sit down and listen carefully to the values, goals, objectives of our clients. Maybe they want to do real estate investing. Maybe this guy over here wants to do Airbnb. Maybe this person over here wants to invest internationally and so on. We look for ways to put the money to work where you can control it with little red tape or prohibition on your money. 

 10:38
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, and I agree with you. What good is it wrapped up somewhere where you can't touch it? We can't get your money to work for you at that point. So I agree with you now. I'm stoked for you, Mark, that you're no longer working five jobs. 

 10:48
Mark Willis
Yeah, me too. 

 10:50
Charlie Van Derven
That doesn't mean you don't stay incredibly busy, not only with client work and Lake Worth, but you've also got a podcast, not your average financial podcast. How long you been doing that we're kindred in that way, mark or something like that. 

 11:05
Mark Willis
That's right, yeah. Well, you and I both see the power of this platform and how we live in the future now where we can be in the ears of many people and your loyal audience. You get to know them and they get to know you over the many years. We started in September 2017, I believe, and with the great help of my team, we haven't missed a single week ever since. I think we're getting close to episode 300 and it's been a great opportunity for me to get closer to my clients and prospective clients to get to meet with them. It quite candidly has helped refine my voice, my message, my belief system. I believe you got to be bold in this business. If you're just creamy peanut butter financial advisor number 17,213, no one's going to care what you think. You have to show them that you have a clear and compelling message, that you are not so average, that in fact you are swimming upstream the current. 

 12:03
Mark Willis
In a world where financial advisors there's 93,000 CFPs last I checked. What makes anybody care what you have to say? I think it really comes down to your belief system and you're going to attract the right people and you're going to repel the rest. I'm okay with both of those things. Yeah. 

 12:21
Charlie Van Derven
I think our messaging, our marketing, if you will right. I don't like to just that's such a term I don't want to put on it, but our messaging is really designed to expel or repel, let's say 95% of people. Right. I just want to talk to the people that want to talk to me and I'm okay with that. 

 12:41
Mark Willis
That also goes as our firm, Lake Growth is actually hiring right now. We're looking for additional advisors. I actually think the same with the people we work with too, our employees, our associates that work with us at our firm. You want to make sure that in fact, you can even see it as a measure of protection. Like I don't want people who shouldn't be with us in our firm. And it's okay. It's okay for us all to be very different and to have 10,000 different independent advisors is better than having one consolidated mega firm that every financial advisor has to fall in line with. I'm glad there's no McDonald's of the financial industry. 

 13:27
Charlie Van Derven
Well, it seems to be going the other way. 

 13:29
Mark Willis
Right? 

 13:30
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, right. The migration is actually to the independence, not to the Mcdonald'sization, which probably could serve the restaurant industry well if it start to reverse itself. I want to share a couple more numbers because you mentioned the number of CFPs 93,000. I think it's last year FINRA's number 612,000, registered reps. Wow. Almost 70,000 IARs. So those aren't in that 612,000. Now of course not everybody's practicing, but all the same. I mean, we're talking, let's say 300 and 5400 thousand practicing advisors in this country. You have to be bold. 

 14:06
Mark Willis
You do. And you think about it. Like if there were 400,000 heart surgeons, would you just go to the one closest by? Would you just work with the nearest one? Or would you search out the very best, the one that most aligned with your values, your perspective on life, your hopes and dreams for your medical outcome is important. I would say your financial outcome is important, too. Stand out from the crowd and be okay with being a little weird. Niche down until it hurts. Even if you're just working only with I agree with one legged ballerinas. You should work with that specific target market because you'll be happier as a result. 

 14:45
Charlie Van Derven
That's a tough market. 

 14:46
Mark Willis
Yeah, I know. 

 14:49
Charlie Van Derven
Probably something that's right. Exactly. There are two or three people in that market, but you can speak specifically to that person. I'm a big advocate of that, too. Get narrow. Right. With that kind of competition, get narrow, cut the competition. It allows you in that messaging in the podcast, whatever that is, to speak specifically to your audience. So I love that. Mark, I want to ask you a couple of questions. You've offered us a bunch of nuggets already. You said one thing, which we'll laugh about real quick and then we'll move on from. When were getting to know each other, you mentioned that how important it is to be a fiduciary. We were talking about your sound bite. Would I sound so I could bring it back up is, hey, Bernie Madoff was a fiduciary. Right. Anyway, I got to bring that up. 

 15:30
Mark Willis
Listen, wording is meaningless. Titles are meaningless. The letters after your name are meaningless. I've not seen a single person just fall through our office doors begging to work with a CFP. Honestly, it might have kept some clients, and it certainly has improved my skill sets. But the word fiduciary is just meaningless. What matters is the trust that you build with your clients. 

 15:57
Charlie Van Derven
So. 

 15:58
Mark Willis
Yes, I agree. I don't care what licenses you have. What I care about is your integrity and your humility and your ability to learn and serve love. 

 16:07
Charlie Van Derven
That your journey. Right? I want to kind of get the low light and the highlight of the journey. So lake growth is 2011. Founded. Did I see? 

 16:22
Mark Willis
I believe so, yeah. 

 16:23
Charlie Van Derven
As you look at that, I know exactly the day I founded Logan social advisors. Bet you know that day too. 

 16:29
Mark Willis
Well, I started independent, like one one. I did my own thing individually. In 2011, I guess, we officially launched Lake Growth the end of the following year. 

 16:38
Charlie Van Derven
Yes. Awesome. 2011, 2012, as you look back on that journey, which is crazy, but already like, say twelve years from the foundation of the RIA, anything that you would change in what you did, anything our listeners can learn from you, so they don't make mistakes. I don't want to term it that way, but anyway, what can they learn from you? 

 17:03
Mark Willis
Mark? Sometimes I think just realizing that you're in business for yourself, but you don't have to be in business by yourself, I think the rugged individualism is both a blessing and a curse. If you can find a mastermind as soon as possible, not feel like you have to reinvent this wheel, that there are people who figured out where the bear traps are, where you don't have to step on the landmines that they stepped on. I think experience can save you years, and it doesn't have to be your experience. That's the thing I'd say do different, is find that Mastermind and lean into it hard as soon as possible. 

 17:38
Charlie Van Derven
Well, any Masterminds that you like well. 

 17:41
Mark Willis
The one that I've been around for a long time now is one known as the bank on Yourself Professionals mastermind it's nationwide. It's been just a godsend for me to keep me focused on the best way to serve clients. 

 17:55
Charlie Van Derven
I got a couple that I really like. Magellan Network is a good one. Not that it's a Mastermind, but a community I really like. It's not just for women, but it's females in finance. My good friend Cheryl Hickerton runs that community, so she's awesome. But it is for men as well. Really supporting the growth of women in the industry. What great advice is that now when you choose your Mastermind and you become part of that community participate. Right. Participate. So I love that. On the flip side of that, as you look at your journey and starting your RIA, mark, anything that you did that maybe you didn't even know at the time, that it was a great pivotal move, anything you did that you can pass advice along to? 

 18:39
Mark Willis
Well, we had the opportunity to receive leads right as I was getting started in the practice, and I thought I had signed up and put my credit card information in all that stuff to get those leads and start to rely on those. I forgot to put in one crucial element, which was zip codes. I didn't have any nothing to my name. A year and a half went by, and I didn't get a single lead. I'm like, this lead source is not really producing a lot for me, but all along the way, I was so busy doing workshops and meeting one one with folks that it didn't bother me too much because my calendar was full. I realized my mistake, I'd made I fixed it and I started to get leads from the system. I'd say a pivot point is don't be dependent on someone else to make those introductions. 

 19:35
Mark Willis
Go out there and start adding value to the marketplace. Create your voice. Figure out your distinct, bold opinions your clear and compelling message, refine that message and do it from day one rather than just relying on someone else's marketing efforts. That made a big difference to me and I think was an element in our success, that mistake I made. 

 19:58
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah. Well, I love that. To your point, like, get active, right? Get active. Whether that's digital, whether that's shaking hands in your community, doing educational events, whatever that is, get active. Absolutely. 

 20:11
Mark Willis
Look, if you're going to be independent, you can't be passive. I think we as business owners, we love the idea of passive income, but what in life is passive that you really care about? Think about it. Is your garden passive? Is your marriage passive? My car is not passive. I need to constantly update it, work on it, repair it, fill it up with gas. My health, my six pack is not going to be I don't even have a six pack, but if I did, it would not be passive. 

 20:37
Charlie Van Derven
I never have. Yeah. 

 20:38
Mark Willis
Got to be focused on lead generation from day one. 

 20:41
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, that's awesome. Tell me about about where late growth is going. 

 20:45
Mark Willis
Well, we want to continue to see a revolution in how people deal with their money, I don't think. Where is it written that we have to use the Wall Street machine for the vast majority of our financial lives? Could it be possible, maybe, that there's better or at least alternative strategies that can complement the investment portfolios we set up for clients? I think it would be incredible if we could see even 10% of the American population have a financial strategy that they could count on that didn't take any unnecessary risks, that built sound generationally, sound money solutions into their lives, that help their kids with college or get their business started or retire with some manner of certainty. So that's what we want to do. We're in the middle of hiring a number of agents, advisors, financial professionals, CFPs, and we've been able to do that for the last since 2015. 

 21:37
Mark Willis
We brought our first associates in, but we're continuing to just look around and say, who's running with us? And keep running. 

 21:44
Charlie Van Derven
Cool. How big is that team now? 

 21:47
Mark Willis
We are, let's see, 3567 different advisors, including myself, and then there's a number of staff and so forth that help support the team. 

 21:58
Charlie Van Derven
You're a solid dude, mark, I'm excited about the goodwill you bring to the industry, man. 

 22:04
Mark Willis
Thank you. 

 22:06
Charlie Van Derven
If any of our listeners have questions and maybe even somebody who is in a position that they're not exactly excited about and looking for some new opportunity, are you cool with being a resource? 

 22:16
Mark Willis
Sure. Yeah, I'd be open to that. 

 22:18
Charlie Van Derven
Awesome. Mark, how do they reach you if they want to ask you some questions or get to know you better? 

 22:23
Mark Willis
Well, you can get to know me first. You can go to our podcast. Not your average financial podcast, not your average financial podcast. If you want to reach out and say a quick hello, go to Lakegrowth.com. That's Lakegrowth.com. There's a big button there that says, book a meeting with Mark. Happy to speak with you for 15 minutes, see if our working together would be the right fit. 

 22:46
Charlie Van Derven
Awesome, Mark. That's great. You're doing great things, man. I love talking to you because you don't have the foundational biases of coming out of that machine, if you will. Right? So totally different, unique path. What's cool about everybody, I get to interview everybody's, gotten to where they are. First off, if you're independent to your point, you've got to be bold, right? That doesn't happen by accident. That doesn't happen unless you take action. Thank you for what you bring to this industry and the advisors that you support and the clients you support. And that Super Bowl champion. Did they do the Super Bowl shuffle? Being in Chicago, I got to ask. 

 23:25
Mark Willis
Well, it just so happened I got to keep client confidentiality. Of course, they're a superstar, and they're doing a Super Bowl shuffle in my heart every day. 

 23:32
Charlie Van Derven
Awesome, man. Very cool. Yeah. Good job on that, Mark. So, mark willis, lake growth financial services, chicago, land, USA. Thank you so much for being my guest on RIA Collective today. 

 23:42
Mark Willis
Thank you very much, Charlie. Glad to be on. Yeah. 

 23:45
Charlie Van Derven
Awesome, man. For anybody who spent their time listening to this episode, by all means check out Lakegrowth.com. If you want to reach out to Mark. He's got some opportunities for advisors looking for new homes, if you will, and for spending some time with us. Thank you so much. If you like what you hear, please share it. Please review it. That helps the listening platforms put it in front of more people so we can reach more people. We don't have that big sponsorship yet, so anything you do to help us grow is much appreciated. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of RAA Collectiv